[Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

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[Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  Deft on Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:31 pm

Character Name: Deafen

Server: Khaz'goroth
Current Guild: no guild (ex-Khazuals raider)
Armory Link: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Khaz'goroth&cn=deafen
Talent Spec: DW Frost
Explanation of your spec, glyphs, gems and enchants: Currently Dual Wield frost spec which is very standard and agreed as maximum personal and raid spec.
Glyphs I am using are also considered highest dps and most viable for raiding -- Disease/Frost Strike/Obliterate. Glyph of disease is required for refreshing of diseases efficiently, Frost strike is main RP attack and Obliterate as this is the best Rune attack.
Gemming Strength gems which is widely known as greater than ArP until i can reach the ArP hard cap which requires a bit more gear. Once hard cap can be reached ArP is considered better to gem for
Other enchants are all around increasing AP and run speed for mobility in raids

Please put a screenshot of your current interface (Upload to photobucket, imageshack, tinypic):

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
i have a number of macros around interrupts, cooldowns and use power auras to track self buffs like rime procs and killing machine. Also using class timers to track diseases


Player History
How long have you been playing World of Warcraft? I have been playing World of Warcraft since release in Australia, used to play with IRL friends on Kilrogg until KhazGoroth opened up. The i played Khazgoroth and Nagrand mostly over the last few years.

What raid experience do you have in WoW or any other MMO? (Please go into detail)
I have had extensive raid experience since release, I was a part of a raiding guild for every raid instance when it was released and have cleared all original content prior to BC. i have played many classes also and am aware of my role and others in many different situation.

Original - Raided with Guild Serenity (Khazuals was formed by 2 guilds Guild Serenity being one of them)
BC i cleared SSC/TK/BT/MH, Sunwell only managed Brut prior to 3.0 release (with another horde guild on Nagrand)

During Wrath i have had the opportunity to raid on a number of characters (Mage, Ret Paladin, DK, Resto Druid, Aff Warlock) so all my achieves are not on this DK (let me know if you would like to see mt other toons to check experience)
WotLK - Cleared Naxx with some HMs/nerd points on Ret Paladin with Bloodsworn (Nagrand)
WotLK - Moved to Khazuals to raid Ulduar, cleared all HMs 10/25
WotLK - ToC i got married and took some time off when ToC hit and only raided casually although cleared 10m HMs and some 25 HMs
WotLK - ICC i have been on a break for a while and not raiding full time. I have cleared 25/10 normal and some 25HMs and all 10 HMs except Singdragosa/LK
WotLK - RS 10/25 normal cleared

Other MMOs - played Aion for a bit

Why did you leave your last guild or why are you leaving your current guild? Was a non-raiding rank in Khazuals for a while and decided to look for another raiding guild as Khazuals could no longer fit me into the raid schedule

What other raiding guilds have you been a part of? Was in Bloodsworn on Nagrand prior to Khazuals which was a semi-hardcore raiding guild for BC/WotLK

Personal Facts
Age:
27
Real name (First name only): Gus
Location (Country + TIME ZONE please): Syd, Australia GMT+10
Regular play time: 6-6:30 and onwards most nights, Saturdays not as much.
Can you make all the raid times (Wed/Thurs/Sun/Mon 6:30pm-9:30pm AEST. Farm content means considerably less raid days): Yes i can make those raid times (occasionally could miss Sunday due to family)

Joining Proxy
Why do you want to join Proxy?
You guys seem focused on your goals and seem to have a good ethic toward building a core group of players to achieve them. I really would like to get into a solid guild, finish WotLK and get ready for Cata, Proxy seems to be the best place to do that for me at the moment. Also raid times really suit me.

How did you hear about us? Forums, wowprogress.com
Are you friends with anyone in Proxy? (Knowing of a person or whispering them once does not mean they are your friend) No I do not sorry.
Can this person vouch for you? N/A


Technical Requirements
Do you have Ventrilo?
Yes indeed
Do you have a mic and can talk if needed? Yes / Yes
List computer specs (just RAM, CPU, GFX Card): Intel Quad Core 2.33ghz, 12gb of Ram, Nvidia 280gtx video

Who is your ISP and how fast is your internet connection? Internode - best isp for gamers with most stable and low ping connection. ADSL2+ usually 16MB connection
Do you disconnect often? Never, although sometimes LowerPing dropds out
Do you use other services like Lowerping, WoWTunnels, etc? LowerPing

Other
WWS/WoL/WMO link of recent raids: I will get a log from the pug on Friday night



When i spoke with one of the officers online i explained the fact that this is my "last to 80" toon and somewhat lacking in the professions department. I am committed to powerleveling my professions to improve this toon.
I would also like to put forward my Mage as a part of this app which is better geared (although i understand you do not require mages at this time). The officer i spoke to said just to add the information for my mage also

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Khaz'goroth&cn=reikin

Thanks for taking the time to read my application, look forward to hearing from Proxy



Last edited by Deft on Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:15 am; edited 1 time in total

Deft

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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  Spl on Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:03 pm

nice app, all looks pretty good. sounds like you've got a good knowledge about frost dps!

couple of questions:
what's the reasoning behind the leather belt? bad luck on drops or some other reason for using it?
no love for fierce ametrine (str/haste) in your yellow sockets either?

gl~
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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  Deft on Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:32 am

Spl wrote:nice app, all looks pretty good. sounds like you've got a good knowledge about frost dps!

couple of questions:
what's the reasoning behind the leather belt? bad luck on drops or some other reason for using it?
no love for fierce ametrine (str/haste) in your yellow sockets either?

gl~

thx for the comments, yes ive had bad luck with drops on the belt. i need the hit neck from Marro before i can replace with the badge belt at a minimum Sad

Im still not 100% convinced of the str/haste for socket bonuses of +4str is a dps increase fully raid buffed i was still under the impression that straight str was better, im happy to give it a go and see how it works out (i know elitest jerks/theorycrafting was talking about +4str or higher socket bonuses benefiting more from str/haste)

Thanks again


Deft

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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  Spl on Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:19 am

yea fair enough, i tend to ignore the +4str bonuses as well
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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  Deft on Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:54 am

Update: will be 450 Alch tonight...

450 JC this week 4sure

Any feedback on my application?

Deft

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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  angrok on Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:51 pm

getting alch wouldnt help you as much as engineering in raid, drop alch and pick up engineering / blacksmithing instead.

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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  Deft on Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:57 pm

angrok wrote:getting alch wouldnt help you as much as engineering in raid, drop alch and pick up engineering / blacksmithing instead.

Mixology is a decent benefit

Flask of Endless Rage 180 AP => 244 AP = +64 AP = ~+35%

Ill get blacksmithing instead of JC


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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  angrok on Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:22 pm

Dont worry about my comments, it is just a discussion.
Quote from Elitist Jerks:



Frost DPS in 3.3.3::This will be a day long remembered
Professions

Alchemy: +80 Attack power through Mixology, when using [Flask of Endless Rage]
Blacksmithing: 2 more sockets: Socket Bracer, Socket Gloves. Assuming [Bold Cardinal Ruby] , the bonus is 40 Strength.
Enchanting: 2x Enchant Ring - Assault. Bonus: +80 Attack Power
Engineering: On use 340 Haste Rating for 12 seconds, 1 min CD. Averages out to 68 Haste Rating. Otherwise you would enchant +44 AP. Total Bonus: +68 Haste Rating, -44 AP.
Herbalism: Lifeblood
Inscription: +80 Attack power because of the enhanced shoulder enchant
Jewelcrafting: 3x +34 [Bold Dragon's Eye] gems instead of +20 Str. 3*14 = 42 Str.
Leatherworking: + 80 Attack power because of the enhanced wrist enchant
Mining: + 60 Stamina
Skinning: +40 Crit Rating
Tailoring: Swordguard Embroidery grants 400 AP for 15 seconds, roughly once a minute. This averages out to approx 100 AP. You miss out the +23 Haste for this. Total Bonus: +100 AP, -23 haste.

Blacksmithing and Jewelcrafting are the superior professions, as they are the only two that can provide a +str bonus.



Dropping JC and pick up Blacksmithing is definitely a NO. You will lose 2 strength if you do so.
The reason why engineering/ blacksmithing are way better than Alchemy,

Strength
This will be your biggest DPS gain after you reach the hit/exp caps. Since DKs have many different multipliers for strength, it works out that 1 strength ends up being woth about 2.7 AP. As all our abilities are affected by strength, this is easily the best stat for a hit/exp-capped Death Knight to stack.

Haste
You need 25.21 baseline haste rating to gain 1% haste at 80. As a DW class with many proc based abilities, haste is more valuable for us than some other melee classes, but still not worth more than crit, strength or ArPen.

Attack Power
As mentioned before, all DK abilities scale off of AP. However, most stats that you will find end up being more valuable than raw AP, so it's not worth seeking it out .Note that despite AP having a 2:1 item stat budget, it is still far weaker than STR as we have no talents that boost it's effect. When comparing or considering pieces with AP vs plate, you need to look at the item stats/level as a whole.

-With Blacksmithing, you have the flexibility to gem strength/ ArP etc.
-With Engineering, Hyperspeed Accelerators (340 haste for 12 seconds per minute), Flexweave Underlay, and Nitro Boosts (24 crit rating) at the cost of your preexisting glove, cape, boot enchant, and also you may use Saronite Bombs.
-Why dropping Jewelcrafting and pick up Blacksmithing is stupid? JC gives you 3 bold dragon eyes which gives you 42strength extra, however 2 sockets from blacksmithing can only give you 40 strength.
- WITH Alchemy however, you can only gain 80 Attack Power from Mixology.
-These are the knowledges that you should've known before you apply to a 12/12HM guild as a DPS. I am just a random tank btw.

angrok

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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  angrok on Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:27 pm

Feel free to discuss with me if you think I am wrong, I am always keening to learn more.

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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  Deft on Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:44 pm



I agree with the other buffs for engineering are > Alch but its not by that much due to losing the pre-exisitng enchants. Alch was the choice to pwrlvl.

Flexibility for gemming str/arp in the BS sockets doesnt really come into it as most socket bonuses are not used for Frost and just gem straight str anyways

2 str between JC/BS so the decision will come down the the availability of mats





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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  angrok on Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:33 pm

Deft wrote:

I agree with the other buffs for engineering are > Alch but its not by that much due to losing the pre-exisitng enchants. Alch was the choice to pwrlvl.

Flexibility for gemming str/arp in the BS sockets doesnt really come into it as most socket bonuses are not used for Frost and just gem straight str anyways

2 str between JC/BS so the decision will come down the the availability of mats





Hi Deft,
I don't think you really understand the "not that much" is a lot to me.



From World of Warcraft - Death Knight Forum
[DPS] Specs, Cycles & Glyphs. Oh my! [3.3.5]

Stat Weights
The numbers generated here were done with gear from the top tier of progression raiding. Meaning for those in gear 1 or 2 tiers below, these numbers won't be as accurate, but rough estimates.
Frost

Stats
AP - 1.00
Str - 2.91
Agi - 1.71
Crit - 2.16
Has - 2.42
ArP - 2.88
Exp - 2.37
Hit - 3.05
SpHit - 2.24
Post SpHit - 1.91
WDPS - 7.01

Set bonuses
2pT9 - 117.65
4pT9 - 278.91
2pT10 - 390.74
4pT10 - 400.98

Frost Basic stats order:
Str > ArP > Haste ~= Crit

From World of Warcraft - Death Knight Forum
DK DPS Guide (Version 3.3.3)
- Focus on strength over attack power (AP). 1 str = 2 AP unmodified. Strength also scales with kings, some of our talents, and one of our major DPS runeforge weapon enchants (Rune of the Fallen Crusader) gets drastically better the more strength you have. You can't go wrong with strength stacking. ALWAYS GET STRENGTH GEMS OVER ATTACK POWER GEMS.

With Engineering, On use 340 Haste Rating for 12 seconds, 1 min CD. Averages out to 68 Haste Rating, Nitro Boosts (24 crit rating) and other enchant etc. You may also increase your movement speed with nitro boots during defile, which helps with your raid ability.
With Jewelcrafting and Blacksmithing, you have the flexibility to gem whatever you want.
And what you said gemming Strength in all slot of gears ( "just gem straight str anyways" ) is TOTALLY wrong.
*I am not talking about the socket bonus here. I am talking about with Blacksmithing you can put 2 sockets into your gear like how you put the extra socket onto your belt. I think you misunderstood my meaning.


From World of Warcraft - Death Knight Forum
[DPS] Specs, Cycles & Glyphs. Oh my! [3.3.5]
* Armor Penetration gems: ArP gems can net a boost in ST DPS once you're in a full kit of 25 man ICC gear. More dependent on weapons than anything - 264 is generally acceptable, but 271/277 are a shoe-in. Once at the required gear level, replacing Str gems for ArP will net a boost in ST DPS for a slight loss in overall AoE output.


Overall, "Blacksmithing/ Jewelcrafting" or "Engineering/ Jewelcrafting" are the best combinations for a DPS death knight. In the end-game content, you would like to squeeze out every tiny bit of dps you can in order to maximise the raid damage output. Comparing Jewelcrafting with blacksmithing, those 2 points of strength means a lot to me. And obviously, I will never pick Alchemy for my raid profession at all, but I guess you wouldn't liisten to me anyway since you've already spent your money on power-leveling alchemy (while I am typing this message I looked at your armory and it is at 433).
If you are applying as a raider (like myself, I am applying as a tank as well), you shouldn't take "choice to powerlevel" or "availabilty of mat" into consideration, you should consider how to maximise your dps instead.

*Just my personal opinion, officers please forgive me for being too talkative, however I just dont want people to misunderstanding our class*

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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  megarambo on Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:38 pm

i side with 2hours flasks Razz
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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  Deft on Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:53 pm

Happy to have a class discussion with you...

Previously i stated reasons for leveling the professions i chose (never claiming it was the best) and also never stated anything contrary that engineering is > JC > BS > skinning> alch,inscrip,enchant [>tailoring>mining>herb]

I also stated in my original post about the benefits of ArP at the appropriate gear levels

I think you may have misunderstood my last reply

...most socket bonuses are not used for Frost and just gem straight str anyways

This wasnt meant to say that all socket bonues are useless, discussions around yellow sockets bonuses benefiting from str/haste and gaining a greater benefit than straight str is widely tested and agreed as better as per the below equation (in saying this apparently there is some discussions later on that talk about only >+4str bonuses are better but i have not tested this)

Elitest Jerks Unholy DK DPS 3.3.5
Whenever a socket bonus requiring any number of red sockets, zero blue sockets, and then one (or more, simply multiply the number in the chart appropriately) yellow sockets, has a bonus that is equal to or higher than the number listed in the following chart utilize a [Fierce Ametrine]:


Stat Blood ilvl 264 [Blood ilvl 277 Frost ilvl 264 Frost ilvl 277 Frost SM
Attack Power 9 9 4 3 2
Strength 3 3 2 1 1
Haste 5 4 2 1 1
Armor Pen 4 2 8 1 1
Crit 5 5 2 2 1
Agility 7 7 3 2 1
Melee Hit 3 3 1 1 1
Expertise 6 6 3 2 1


Engineering is known to be the hardest profession to put an exact dps total on but is definitely considered as good or better than the rest. as well as the non-dmg bonuses
Quote from EJ DK DPS 3.3.5
Engineering
Hyperspeed Accelerators (340 haste for 12 seconds per minute), Flexweave Underlay, and Nitro Boosts (24 crit rating) at the cost of your preexisting glove, cape, and boot enchant, as well as [Saronite Bomb]s (which are off the GCD). Unlike other professions, it’s difficult to calculate the Engineering’s raw value, however it is at least equal to its competitors, and in most cases superior. On top of that fact, it provides a gain which is more than just damage - a self levitate and sprint should not be underestimated.

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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  angrok on Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:30 pm

Deft wrote:Happy to have a class discussion with you...

Previously i stated reasons for leveling the professions i chose (never claiming it was the best) and also never stated anything contrary that engineering is > JC > BS > skinning> alch,inscrip,enchant [>tailoring>mining>herb]

I also stated in my original post about the benefits of ArP at the appropriate gear levels

I think you may have misunderstood my last reply

...most socket bonuses are not used for Frost and just gem straight str anyways

This wasnt meant to say that all socket bonues are useless, discussions around yellow sockets bonuses benefiting from str/haste and gaining a greater benefit than straight str is widely tested and agreed as better as per the below equation

Elitest Jerks Unholy DK DPS 3.3.5
Whenever a socket bonus requiring any number of red sockets, zero blue sockets, and then one (or more, simply multiply the number in the chart appropriately) yellow sockets, has a bonus that is equal to or higher than the number listed in the following chart utilize a [Fierce Ametrine]:


Stat Blood ilvl 264 [Blood ilvl 277 Frost ilvl 264 Frost ilvl 277 Frost SM
Attack Power 9 9 4 3 2
Strength 3 3 2 1 1
Haste 5 4 2 1 1
Armor Pen 4 2 8 1 1
Crit 5 5 2 2 1
Agility 7 7 3 2 1
Melee Hit 3 3 1 1 1
Expertise 6 6 3 2 1


Engineering is known to be the hardest profession to put an exact dps total on but is definitely considered as good or better than the rest. as well as the non-dmg bonuses
Quote from EJ DK DPS 3.3.5
Engineering
Hyperspeed Accelerators (340 haste for 12 seconds per minute), Flexweave Underlay, and Nitro Boosts (24 crit rating) at the cost of your preexisting glove, cape, and boot enchant, as well as [Saronite Bomb]s (which are off the GCD). Unlike other professions, it’s difficult to calculate the Engineering’s raw value, however it is at least equal to its competitors, and in most cases superior. On top of that fact, it provides a gain which is more than just damage - a self levitate and sprint should not be underestimated.


Please note that in the elitist jerks post you quoted, the stastic is about Unholy DK SubSpec with Blood / Frost. It is not talking about Frost Spec DK if you realise. So it doesnt really stand for your point.
and why is the reason you level Alchemy for raid but not blacksmithing + Jewelcrafting? blacksmithing and jewelcrafting gives you instant increase isnt it? Not like Engineering as you said Engineering doesnt put exact dps output (which is definitely true, you can do exceptional dps if you ultilise Engineering, but u may also do extremely poor dps without using CDs efficiently.)

I didnt say u have to ignore about socket, i said in this case i am not talking about the socket bonus. What I am saying is your point " just gem straight str anyway" doesnt stand, although you've provided the statistic from EJ, please note that it is for Unholy with subSpec blood/Frost
If you really want to talk about socket bonus,

Frost DPS in 3.3.3::This will be a day long remembered

In pieces of gear with yellow sockets that will yield a +str set bonus you should use [Inscribed Ametrine]. Every other socket should be filled with [Bold Cardinal Ruby].

Gem Choices
As a general rule of thumb, you shsould use red gems in every socket. The only exception will be if you have a single yellow socket with a +strength socket bonus or are using your nightmare tear in a blue socket (which should also be used for a strength bonus). Inputting your stat weights into a website like wowhead.com can also inform you of the best gem choices to make.
they didnt say "gem straight str anyway", did they? In case you want to argue with that, they said In pieces of gear with yellow sockets that will yield a +str set bonus you should use [Inscribed Ametrine]. , so i guess you cant "gem straight str anyway" for everything. (you gem Str/crit by the way not Str/Haste, However it really based on what gears/ stat you have to decide the gemming )

But overall, it really depends on your gears and your stat, but definitely a leather belt is not a good choice for dps Wink
(I understand.. bad luck on loot I can feel your pain :'( )

And if you know that strength is slightly better than other stat (including AP), once again, why dont you pick BS+JC / ENG+JC but u wanna pick ALCH+JC/ ALCH+BS?

Your points dont really stand your current profession to be honest. You are mentioning a lot of benefit from Engineering, Strength, ArP etc, then why would you pick Alchemy (increase 80 AP) !?

I really recommand you to drop Alchemy and pick up Eng+JC / BS+JC for your own benefit, and it could really help Proxy to maximise the total dps output if you get in.

I guess in a big server like Barthilas there are enough mat for you to pwrlvl in 1 day. (If u say it depends on the mat)


Good class discussion with you, best of luck with your application and i am gonig to bed Smile

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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  Tiger on Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:54 pm

WALL OF TEXT TL:DR
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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  Deft on Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:45 am

I thought you would have been impressed that i got that HTML table across into BBcode... guess theres no pleasing some people Very Happy

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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  Deft on Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:57 pm

Update: wasnt able to get into a pug to get a wws report for you guys. there should be a GDKP run i can get on for Sunday and upload a report then

Edit: Professions complete

Thanks

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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  Roidzz on Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:05 am

Firstly, I have no idea who Angrok is Razz so don't worry too much if he's giving you trouble, secondly good to see you actually do some research.

We'll get back to you asap Smile Just need to see those logs!

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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  Deft on Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:43 am


Thanks Roidzz, yea i didnt expect a theorycrafting match for my application thread.. oh well im not much of a theorycrafting nerd anyways just like to stay up to date

I have a WWS from a pug Sarth weekly today - had no melee buffsexcept 10% ap, not even kings, can provide logs if interested, other wise i can try get on this GDKP run tomorrow with Khazuals (GDKP is so popular on Khaz'goroth, everyone is a gold buyer lol)

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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  Deft on Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:19 am

http://wowwebstats.com/ickei54p6cexg

WWS from Lord Marrow Heroic so couldnt tunnel boss etc.

I got spiked 3 times also have no 4% melee buff.



Saurfang heroic attempt (again no 4% melee) http://wowwebstats.com/m2xubmpryjy4c

Saurfang kill http://wowwebstats.com/b3o6zc55djgwi

Picked up 2 more pieces of 277 gear also (bloodvenom blade and coldwraith links)


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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

Post  Fozby on Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:33 pm

Declined sorry

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Re: [Declined]Deafen - Frost DK

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